Supreme Court shooting down D.C. gun ban triggers GOP criticism of Obama.

SHARE Supreme Court shooting down D.C. gun ban triggers GOP criticism of Obama.

WASHINGTON–n the wake of the Supreme Court striking down the gun ban here, the hot button issue of gun control moved into the spotlight Thursday as an issue in the Obama-McCain campaign, as the Republicans sought to portray Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) as either shifting his views over the years or trying to have it both ways.

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe in a conference call, downplayed the role guns will play in the November election and said people are more anxious about the economy than guns.

We think that it is very important for people, for sportsmen who are hunters to understand that Barack Obama believes strongly in the Second Amendment, said Plouffe. He doesnt think that it is in conflict with common sense efforts to stem gun violence.

RNC Chairman Robert M. Mike Duncan said in statement, “The Republican Party commends the Supreme Court decision this morning upholding the Second Amendment. The Courts ruling reaffirms that the rights enshrined in our nations Constitution are just as relevant now as when it was signed. Todays ruling also serves as a stark reminder of what is at stake in this election. Senator McCain strongly supports the Second Amendment and our constitutional right to bear arms, while Senator Obama is arguably the most anti-gun presidential candidate in our nations history. Obama failed to step forward and join Senator McCain in signing a bipartisan amicus brief expressing support for the ruling issued today. Obama has even supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns. Todays ruling is a victory for all Americans and we must remain vigilant to protect our freedoms from those who seek to change them and believe they are above the Constitution.

After the high court said the gun ban was unconstitutional. the research department of the Republican National Committee sent out a memo with Obama quotes supporting gun bans.

Click for the RNC memo…..

OBAMA 96 QUESTIONNAIRE HANDGUN BAN

OBAMA CAMPAIGNS RESPONSE TO HIS SUPPORT OF BANNING HANDGUNS IS MISLEADING

Obama Filled Out 96 Questionnaire Indicating Support For Banning Handguns,

Claimed He Didnt Fill It Out:

In Response To A 1996 Independent Voters Of Illinois Questionnaire, Obama

Indicated That He Supported Banning The Manufacture, Sale And Possession Of

Handguns. Question from a 1996 Independent Voters of Illinois questionnaire:

Do you support state legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession

of handguns? Obamas answer: Yes. (Independent Voters Of Illinois Independent

Precinct Organization 1996 General Candidate Questionnaire, Barack Obama

Responses, 9/9/96)

Obamas Campaign Claims He Did Not Fill Out The Questionnaire. Aides claim

Obama did not fill out the questionnaire, and instead it was handled by a

staffer who misrepresented his views on gun control, the death penalty and

more. (Todd Venezia, Going Barack & Forth, The New York Post, 12/23/07)

* Obama Spokesman Ben LaBolt: Obama never saw the 96 IVI-IPO state Senate

questionnaire — it was filled out by a staffer who unintentionally

mischaracterized his views on a number of issues (Lynn Sweet, The Past

Haunts Obama? Chicago Sun-Times, 12/12/07)

* LaBolt Said The Staffer Was Then-Obama State Senate Campaign Manager Carol

Harwell, Who Could Not Be Reached For Comment. (Lynn Sweet, The Past Haunts

Obama? Chicago Sun-Times, 12/12/07)

During 4/16 Dem. Debate, Obama Falsely Claimed His Handwriting Did Not Appear On

Questionnaire. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., maintained at Wednesdays ABC News

debate in Philadelphia that his handwriting does not appear on a 1996

questionnaire stating support for a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession

of handguns. The Democratic presidential frontrunner made this claim even though

a copy of the original document suggests otherwise. When asked about the gun

questionnaire with the handwriting on it, Obama adviser Robert Gibbs did not

dispute that the writing was Obamas. (Teddy Davis and Talal Al-Khatib, Obama

Forgets Writing On Gun Questionnaire, ABC News Political Radar Blog,

www.abcnews.com

, 4/18/08)

* 4/16 Dem. Debate Included Obama False Claim On Questionnaire. On guns,

moderator Charles Gibson asked about a questionnaire with Obamas writing on one

page and an answer on another that said Obama favored banning handguns. Obama

answered: No, my writing wasnt on that particular questionnaire, Charlie. As I

said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns. The Clinton campaign

helpfully handed out copies of the questionnaire later that did have Obamas

writing on it, and the gun opposition. The Obama camp insists Obama did not see

the relevant page, or another in a similar questionnaire. (Michael McAuliff,

Pushing Wafles, [New York] Daily News Mouth Of The Potomac Blog,

www.nydailynews.com

, 4/17/08)

A Spokesman For IVI-IPO Denies The Campaigns Claims. A spokesman for the

Illinois group said the excuse is ridiculous because they interviewed him in

person. (Todd Venezia, Going Barack & Forth, The New York Post, 12/23/07)

Amended Version Of 96 Questionnaire Leads To Further Skepticism Of Obamas

Claims. During his first run for elected office, Barack Obama played a greater

role than his aides now acknowledge in crafting liberal stands on gun control,

the death penalty and abortion positions that appear at odds with the more

moderate image he has projected during his presidential campaign. The evidence

comes from an amended version of an Illinois voter groups detailed

questionnaire, filed under his name during his 1996 bid for a state Senate

seat. (Kenneth P. Vogel, Obama Had Great Role In Liberal Survey, Politico,

3/31/08)

* Obama Was Actually Interviewed. [A] Politico examination determined that

Obama was actually interviewed about the issues on the questionnaire by the

liberal Chicago nonprofit group that issued it. And it found that Obama the

day after sitting for the interview filed an amended version of the

questionnaire, which appears to contain Obamas own handwritten notes added to

one answer. (Kenneth P. Vogel, Obama Had Great Role In Liberal Survey,

Politico, 3/31/08)

* Unbelievable Obama Never Saw Questionnaire. Dobry, Patt and current IVI-IPO

state chairman David K. Igasaki, a Clinton supporter, agreed Obama likely didnt

write every word of his campaigns 1996 answers. But they all dismissed as

unbelievable his presidential campaigns assertion that Obama never saw or

signed off on the state Senate questionnaires. (Kenneth P. Vogel, Obama Had

Great Role In Liberal Survey, Politico, 3/31/08)

—————-

Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:44 AM

Subject: OBAMA’S SUPREME MISTAKE ON GUNS

RNC Research

—————-

[Obama]

OBAMA’S SUPREME MISTAKE ON GUNS

The Supreme Court Rules Against Obama’s Anti-Gun Views On D.C. Gun Ban, Further

Demonstrating Obama Is Most Anti-Gun Presidential Candidate In History

_______________________________________________________________________

Obama Expressed Support For The D.C. Gun Ban:

Obama Campaign: “Obama Believes The D.C. Handgun Law Is Constitutional.” “[T]he

campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he

‘…believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun

owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat

violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is

constitutional.'” (James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, “Court To Hear Gun

Case,” Chicago Tribune, 11/20/07)

During An Interview, Obama Acknowledged His Support For The D.C. Gun Ban.

Questioner Leon Harris: “One other issue that’s of great importance here in the

district as well is gun control. You said in Idaho recently – I’m quoting here –

‘I have no intention of taking away folks’ guns,’ but you support the D.C.

handgun ban.” Obama: “Right.” (Leon Harris and Sen. Barack Obama, Forum

Sponsored By ABC And Politico.Com, Washington, DC, 2/12/08)

* In The Same Interview, Obama Indicated He Feels The D.C. Gun Ban Is

Constitutional. Harris: “And you’ve said that it’s constitutional. How can you

reconcile those two different positions?” Obama: “Oh, because I think we have

two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it is important for us to

recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership

generally. And a lot of people, law-abiding citizens, use it for hunting, for

sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have violence on the

streets that is a result of illegal handgun use. And so, there is nothing wrong,

I think, with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off

the streets…” (Leon Harris and Sen. Barack Obama, Forum Sponsored By ABC And

Politico.Com, Washington, DC, 2/12/08)

* Click Here To Watch Obama

Express Support For The D.C. Gun Ban

In Addition To Supporting The D.C. Gun Ban, Obama Has A Long Anti-Gun Record

That Includes Telling Scholar John Lott “I Don’t Believe That People Should Be

Able To Own Guns”:

Scholar John Lott Recalls Obama Stating: “I Don’t Believe That People Should Be

Able To Own Guns.” John Lott: “In fact, I knew Obama during the mid-1990s, and

his answers to IVI’s question on guns fit well with the Obama that I knew.

Indeed, the first time I introduced myself to him he said ‘Oh, you are the gun

guy.’ I responded ‘Yes, I guess so.’ He simply responded that ‘I don’t believe

that people should be able to own guns.'” (John R. Lott, Jr., “Obama And Guns:

Two Different Views,” Fox News, www.foxnews.com

, 4/7/08)

In Response To A 1996 Independent Voters Of Illinois Questionnaire, Obama

Indicated That He Supported Banning The “Manufacture, Sale And Possession Of

Handguns.” Question: “Do you support state legislation to … ban the

manufacture, sale and possession of handguns?” Obama’s Response: “Yes.”

(Independent Voters Of Illinois Independent Precinct Organization 1996 General

Candidate Questionnaire, Barack Obama Responses, 9/9/96)

Obama Was Director Of Anti-Gun Joyce Foundation, Which Spent Millions On

Gun-Control Causes. “Adding even further skepticism to Obama’s claim of support

for the 2nd Amendment is his previous service as a director of the Joyce

Foundation. Since 2000, the Joyce Foundation has provided over $15 Million in

funding to radical gun control organizations such as the Violence Policy Center

and the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence. The Joyce Foundation is

tightly linked to the Soros Open Society Instit ute — an extremist group that

advocates a worldwide ban on civilian firearm ownership.” (Illinois State Rifle

Association, “ISRA Blasts Candidate Obama On His Record Of Hostility Toward

Law-Abiding Firearm Owners,” Press Release, 8/24/04)

In 2004, Obama Voted Against Self-Defense Rights. “[Obama] opposed letting

people use a self-defense argument if charged with violating local handgun bans

by using weapons in their homes. The bill was a reaction to a Chicago-area man

who, after shooting an intruder, was charged with a handgun violation.” (Ryan

Keith “Obama Record In State Legislature Offers Possible Ammunition For

Critics,” The Associated Press, 1/17/07)

In 2004, Running For U.S. Senate Obama Called For Federal Legislation To

Pre-Empt State Concealed Carry Laws. “In a February survey of Democratic primary

candidates for the U.S. Senate by the Tribune, Obama said he opposed allowing

ordinary citizens to carry concealed weapons and that a federal law banning

concealed carried weapons except for law enforcement is needed.” (Liam Ford,

“Keyes Backs Law On Concealed Guns,” Chicago Tribune, 8/25/04)

On December 21, 1999, Obama Discussed The Penalties One Would Receive If

Carrying A Firearm Illegally. (State Of Illinois 91st General Assembly Regular

Session Senate Transcript, www.ilga.gov

, 12/21/99, p. 20-23)

* Obama: “Senator Emil Jones has offered – and I think this is an excellent idea

that gets at the concerns that everybody on that side of the aisle has had,

which is that we would create a felony offense and a misdemeanor offense,

depending on the kinds of weapons you’re carrying. Basically, the provision

would say that there are category one weapons: handguns, sawed-off shotguns,

sawed-off rifles, other firearms that are small enough to store on their person,

that to unlawfully possess and carry these weapons would be a felony; but, on

the other hand, if you were going to be carrying a rifle or shotgun, a spring

gun, other firearm that were used for hunting, then that would be a

misdemeanor.” (State Of Illinois 91st General Assembly Regular Session S enate

Transcript, www.ilga.gov

, 12/21/99, p. 21)

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Obama linked to gun control efforts

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9722.html

_____

JOYCE FOUNDATION

OBAMAS 8 YEARS AS DIRECTOR OF RADICAL ANTI-GUN CASH COW REVEAL TRUE LENGTHS HE WENT TO PURSUE GUN CONTROL AGENDA

Between 1994 And 2002, Obama Was Director Of Anti-Gun Joyce Foundation:

Obama Was Named A Director In Late 1994. The Joyce Foundation named Barack Obama of Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland a director. (Chicago Sun-Times, 11/28/94)

In 2000, After Being Defeated In A Race For The U.S. Congress, Obama Considered Becoming President Of The Joyce Foundation. [Obama] considered becoming president of the Joyce Foundation, a Chicago organization that gives out roughly $50 million a year to initiatives on the environment, poverty, violence, and schools. The position was high-profile, well paying, close to home, and appealed to his sense of public mission. Obama knew the foundations work because he was on its board at the time. (Scott Helman, Early Defeat Launched A Rapid Political Climb, The Boston Globe, 10/12/07)

Obama Was A Director Until 2002. The new directors bring the total number of Joyce board members to 13. They replace outgoing members Robert Bottoms, President of DePauw University, Carin Clauss, Professor of Law at the University of Wisconsin Law School, and Illinois State Senator Barack Obama. (Joyce Foundation, Four New Directors Join Joyce Foundation Board, Press Release, 12/12/02)

The Joyce Foundation Was Known As The Main Patron Of Firearms Research In America. Roseanna Ander of the Joyce Foundation, the main patron of firearms research in America (Susan A. Webster, Few Study Solutions For Guns, The Detroit News, 11/28/00)

In 2000, The Joyce Foundation Along With George Soros Open Society Institute Helped Generate Record Funds For Gun Control. Gun-control supporters in the last year have generated more money than ever before for research, violence prevention and advocacy, including tens of millions in grants from philanthropic groups such as George Soros Open Society Institute, the San Francisco-based Richard and Rhoda Goldman Fund and the Chicago-based Joyce Foundation. (Eric Lichtblau and Richard Simon, Gun-Control Movement Split By Ambition To Ban Handguns, Los Angeles Times, 4/18/00)

Obamas Tenure As Director Of The Joyce Foundation Adds Skepticism To Claims That He Is Pro-Gun. Adding even further skepticism to Obamas claim of support for the 2nd Amendment is his previous service as a director of the Joyce Foundation. The Joyce Foundation is tightly linked to the Soros Open Society Institute — an extremist group that advocates a worldwide ban on civilian firearm ownership. Certainly, Barack Obama would not have been invited to sit on the board of the Joyce Foundation had he not held similar views on private firearm ownership. (Illinois State Rifle Association, ISRA Blasts Candidate Obama On His Record Of Hostility Toward Law-Abiding Firearm Owners, Press Release, 8/24/04)

In 2000, The Joyce Foundation Lavishly Funded One-Sided Chicago-Kent Anti-Gun Symposium; Circuit Court Cited Law Review Articles In Collective-Right Ruling:

Symposium Was Lavishly Funded By Joyce And One-Sided. The NAS study will receive $109,000 from the prohibitionist Joyce Foundation, which lavishly funded the Chicago-Kent Law Reviews one-sided anti-Second Amendment symposium last year [2000], and which has contributed generously to gun-prohibition groups. (David Kopel and Glen Reynolds, Op-Ed, Political Science, National Review, 8/29/01)

The Joyce Foundation Approved $84,000 In Funds For The Symposium. Grants Approved in 1999 Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago-Kent College of Law Chicago, Illinois Amount: $84,000 Duration: 6 months For a symposium and law review on the Second Amendment. (Joyce Foundation, 1999 Annual Report)

The Symposium Was Admittedly Not A Balanced Symposium. With generous support from the Joyce Foundation, the Chicago-Kent Law Review sponsored this Symposium to take a fresh look at the Second Amendment and, particularly, the collective right theory. This is not, therefore, a balanced symposium. No effort was made to include the individual right point of view. Full and robust public debate is not always best served by having all viewpoints represented in every symposium.[106] Sometimes one point of view requires greater illumination. (Carl T. Bogus, The History And Politics Of Second Amendment Scholarship: A Primer, Chicago-Kent Law Review, Vol. 76, 2000: 3)

Circuit Court Cited Chicago-Kent Law Review 8 Times In Decision That Took Collective-Right View Of 2nd Amendment. In its Silveira ruling, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit cited law articles from the Chicago-Kent Law Review, Vol. 76 8 times. (Silveira v. Lockyer, 312 F.3d 1052 (9th Cir., 2002))

Chicago-Kent Law Review Articles Were Also Cited In Fifth Circuit Ruling In 2001. In its Emerson ruling, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit cited law articles from the Chicago-Kent Law Review, Vol. 76 5 times. (U.S. v. Emerson, 270 F.3d 203 (5th Cir., 2001)

NOTE: In December 2002, The Ninth Circuit Court Of Appeals Ruled That The 2nd Amendment Does Not Protect An Individual Right. A federal appeals court ruling in defense of Californias ban on assault weapons has rejected a new Justice Department policy asserting that the Second Amendment affords individuals, not just state militias, broad rights to own guns. In a 72-page opinion, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit said today that Attorney General John D. Ashcrofts policy change, announced last year, has no legal standing. (Rene Sanchez, Stance On Guns For Individuals Rejects, The Washington Post, 12/6/02)

The Decision By The Ninth Circuit Contradicted The Fifth Circuit Ruling And Held That The 2nd Amendment Protects Only A Collective Right To Organize State Militias. In 2001, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, in New Orleans, ruled that the Second Amendment broadly protected the rights of individuals to own guns. Yesterdays decision took the contrary view, holding that the amendment protects only a collective right to organize state militias. (Adam Liptak, U.S. Appeals Court Upholds Limits On Assault Weapons, The New York Times, 12/6/02)

In Addition, The Violence Policy Center Also Funded By Joyce Foundation Promoted The Chicago-Kent Citations In Ninth Circuit Ruling. Citing cutting-edge scholarship such as the 2000 Chicago Kent Law ReviewSymposium on the Second Amendment: Fresh Looks, the Silveira decision details the history and context of the Second Amendment, as well as existing legal precedent, and makes clear that the Second Amendment does not guarantee an individual right to keep and bear arms. (Violence Policy Center, Federal Court Upholds California Assault Weapons Ban, Strongly Rebuts Ashcroft Justice Department View That Second Amendment Guarantees An Individual Right To Keep And Bear Arms, 12/5/02)

OBAMA-TENURE AT JOYCE SHOWS INCREASED FUNDING FOR ANTI-GUN CAUSES

Joyce Foundation Funding For Anti-Gun Causes Increased While Obama Was Director:

In 1995, The Joyce Foundation Approved About $1.2 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. In 1995, the Joyce Foundation awarded $1.2 million for gun violence research and advocacy. (Susan A. Webster, Few Study Solutions For Guns, The Detroit News, 11/28/00)

In 1996, The Joyce Foundation Approved Almost $2.4 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. According to Joyce Foundation newsletters, in 1996 the organization approved $2,393,988 in grants to gun control causes. The following grants were approved at the March 28, 1996 meeting of the Board of Directors Total Gun Violence $710,051; The following grants were approved at the July 25, 1996 meeting of the Board of Directors Total Gun Violence $618,700; The following grants were approved at the November 21, 1996 meeting of the Board of Directors Total Gun Violence $1,065,237. (May 2006, September 2006, and January 2007 Joyce Foundation Newsletters)

In 1997, The Joyce Foundation Approved Almost $2.4 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. JOYCE FOUNDATION In 1997, 235 grants totaling $ 35,458,062 were appropriated in these program areas: gun violence, $ 2,392,591 (Foundation Annual Reports, The Chronicle Of Philanthropy, 6/18/98)

In 1998, The Joyce Foundation Approved Almost $4 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. JOYCE FOUNDATION In 1998, 201 grants totaling $ 29,862,709 were allocated in these program areas: gun violence, $ 3,953,653 (Foundation Annual Reports, The Chronicle Of Philanthropy, 7/29/99)

In 1999, The Joyce Foundation Approved $4.5 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. TOTAL GUN VIOLENCE $4,558,301. (Joyce Foundation, 1999 Annual Report)

In 2000, The Joyce Approved $5.6 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. JOYCE FOUNDATION In 2000, 254 grants totaling $55,866,743 were approved in the following program areas: gun violence, $5,621,980 (Foundation Annual Reports, The Chronicle Of Philanthropy, 10/4/01)

In 2001, The Joyce Foundation Approved Almost $4.2 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. Total Gun Violence $4,192,249. (Joyce Foundation, 2001 Annual Report)

In 2002, The Joyce Foundation Approved $3.2 Million In Anti-Gun Grants. JOYCE FOUNDATION In 2002, the foundation approved 178 grants totaling $26,459,583 in the following program areas: gun violence, $3,216,967 (Foundation Annual Reports, The Chronicle Of Philanthropy, 8/7/03)

NOTE: During Obamas Tenure As Director Of The Joyce Foundation, Funding For Anti-Gun Causes Totaled About $27,529,729.

Other Gun Control Causes Funded By The Joyce Foundation:

Between 1993 and 1999, The Joyce Foundation Gave More Than $13.2 Million To Anti-Gun Causes. Foundations have helped drive a surge of anti-gun initiatives: The Joyce Foundation, the first to target gun violence as a health issue, has handed out $13.2 million in grants to 55 organizations working on gun issues [between 1993 and 1999]. (David B. Ottaway, Legal Assault On Firearms Is Armed By Foundations, The Washington Post, 5/19/99)

In 1999, The Joyce Foundation Gave $500,000 To Establish The Indiana Partnership To Prevent Firearm Violence. Dr. Marilyn Bull, director of developmental pediatrics at Riley Hospital for Children and other medical professionals in Indianapolis recently learned they will receive a $500,000, three-year grant from the Chicago-based Joyce Foundation to establish the Indiana Partnership to Prevent Firearm Violence. (Dianna Penner, Friendship Forged By Tragedy, The Indianapolis Star, 8/29/99)

In 1999, The Joyce Foundation Provided Funding To Make WAVE A Statewide Organization In Wisconsin. The Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort, which started in 1995 as a grass-roots project to raise awareness of firearm deaths, announced plans to become a statewide organization that would actively work on issues related to gun violence. With a $20,000 planning grant from the Joyce Foundation, WAVEs educational fund has formed an advisory board of community and social service leaders, legislators, lawyers, public health professionals, childrens and womens advocates, and others to form the goals and objectives of the organization. (Anti-Violence Group To Encompass State, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 12/9/99)

In 2000, The Joyce Foundation Provided Funding As Part Of $5 Million Effort To Correctly Portray Gun Violence In Entertainment Products. The Entertainment Industries Council has launched the largest initiative to date to encourage accurate depictions of drugs, alcohol and tobacco use and addiction in entertainment products. The $5 million Spotlight on Depiction effort will also focus on correct portrayals of gun violence, safety and injury prevention. The EIC is launching the initiative in partnership with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the National Institute on Drug Abuse, with additional funding from the Joyce Foundation. (Nellie Andreeva, EIC Spotlights Drug Portrayals, The Hollywood Reporter, 3/6/00)

In 2001, The Joyce Foundation Provided Almost $1 Million For Anti-Gun NAS Study. [A] Clinton administration-inspired National Academy of Sciences study bearing the innocuous title of Improving Research Information and Data on Firearms, opens its formal hearings on Thursday. The NAS study will receive $900,000 from the prohibitionist Joyce Foundation which has contributed generously to gun-prohibition groups. It is a fair inference that the Joyce Foundation thinks that the panel is very likely to produce results that will advance its mission. (David Kopel and Glen Reynolds, Op-Ed, Political Science, National Review, 8/29/01)

The Panel That Took Part In NAS Study Was Criticized For Receiving Funds From Organizations Such As Joyce Foundation — Which Exclusively Supported Gun Control. Also, it is odd that the [NAS] panel is accepting supplemental funding only from private foundations, such as the Joyce Foundation, that have exclusively supported gun control in the past. (John Lott, Op-Ed, Gun Panel Hears With An Ear Shut, Los Angeles Times, 8/31/01)

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