McCain starts on Obama over former Weatherman (now educator) Ayers.

SHARE McCain starts on Obama over former Weatherman (now educator) Ayers.

WASHINGTONGOP presumptive nominee Sen. John McCain (R-Az.) on Sunday foreshadowed how certain it is that William Ayers will be a “Swift Boat” factor if Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) wins the Democratic nomination.

Im sure hes very patriotic. But his relationship with

Mr. Ayers is open to question, McCain told George Stephanopoulos on ABCs This Week.

Ayers is the Weather Underground radical of the anti-Viet Nam war era transformed into a Chicago academic specializing in urban education. At the debate Wednesday in Philadelphia, Obama tried to defend his knowing Ayers by comparing it to with his cordial relationship with Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) who is a conservative.

McCain thought that comparison was a bunch of baloney.Coburn, a physician who goes to Oklahoma on the weekends and brings babies into life comparing those two I mean, thats not

thats an attitude, frankly, that certainly isnt in keeping with the

overall attitude

Stephanopolulos said to McCain Obama says he was eight years old when Ayers was part of the violence Weather Underground group.

But he became friends with him and spent time with him

while the guy was unrepentant over his activities as a member of a

terrorist organization, the Weathermen, McCain said.

I dont and then to compare him with Dr. Tom Coburn, who

spends so much of his life bringing babies into this world that, in

my view is really borders out outrage.

Transcript of McCain on ABCs This Week


APRIL 20, 2008




STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning. Welcome to the Newseum and This

Week. Our exclusive headliner John McCain.


MCCAIN: I want to win this election.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Democrats say hes out of touch.


SEN. BARACK OBAMA, D-ILL.: John McCain thinks our economy has

made great progress under George W. Bush.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, D-N.Y.: He looked at the hole that

President Bush has dug us into and says, why not more? Lets go



STEPHANOPOULOS: Is his new plan the answer for an ailing



MCCAIN: It will not be enough simply to dust off the economic

policies of four, eight or 28 years ago. We have our own work to do.




OBAMA: This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics

has become obsessed with.

CLINTON: This is a legitimate area, as everything is when we run

for office, for people to be exploring and trying to find answers.


STEPHANOPOULOS: The debate debate. That and the rest of the

weeks politics on our roundtable, with George Will, Sam Donaldson,

and Cokie Roberts.

And, as always, the Sunday Funnies.


DAVID LETTERMAN, TALK SHOW HOST: It was so nice here in New York

City that Barack Obama could not find anyone who was bitter.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Hello again and welcome to our new home. As you

can see, were right here on historic Pennsylvania Avenue, the Capitol

is just behind us there, and a lot of thunderstorms out there as well

this morning, but we are thrilled to be here and to welcome our first

guest, Senator John McCain. Welcome, Senator.

MCCAIN: Thank you. I understand in HD for the first time.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In HD. Weve all got to


STEPHANOPOULOS: Youre looking great.

Lets begin with the headlines this morning. Washington Post

this morning, huge front-page story, John McCain: A Question of

Temperament. They talk to a lot of your former colleagues and

associates about your temper. Many say its not a problem anymore.

Others say youve got it under control. But look at what a former

colleague of yours, Senator Bob Smith of New Hampshire, said. He

said, John McCains temper would place this country at risk in

international affairs and the world perhaps in danger. In my mind, it

should disqualify him. A Republican. You served with him.

MCCAIN: Yes, I served with him, and had significant differences

on several issues. But the point is, look, those many all

the majority of those stories 15, 20, 25 years ago. The point is that

I feel passionately about issues. I work across the aisle. Ive been

successful in getting legislation done. But the important thing is

that, do I get angry from time to time, when Im investigating Mr.

Abramoff and find out they ripped off Indian tribes? When I see

bridges to nowhere? And you know what, the American people are angry,

too. They want change. They want action. And theyre fed up and

theyre angry with the way things have been going here in Washington.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you conceded in your own memoir in 2002 that

your temper had been a problem. How can you assure voters that its

under control?

MCCAIN: Again, look at my record. Look at my conduct on the

campaign. Look at I mean, look, I am very happy to be a passionate

man. I love this country. I love what we stand for and believe in,

and many times I deal passionately when I find things that are not in

the best interests of the American people. And so, look, 20, 25 years

ago, 15 years ago, thats fine, and those stories here are either

totally untrue or grossly exaggerated.

One thing Ive learned over time is that stories get better and

better over time.

STEPHANOPOULOS: A lot of Americans angry right now about the



STEPHANOPOULOS: And on Friday, you conceded that Americans are

not better off than they were eight years ago, but the Democrats are

launching an ad campaign this week where theyre going to try to pin

some comments you made during the primary. Take a look.


MCCAIN: I think you could argue that Americans overall are

better off because we have had a pretty good, prosperous time, with

low unemployment, low inflation. A lot of good things have happened,

a lot of jobs have been created. I think we are better off overall.

UNKNOWN: Do you feel better off?


STEPHANOPOULOS: The theme is going to be, and you know it,

youre out of touch, you just dont get it. How do you respond?

MCCAIN: Well, I have an economic plan. Its good. Its strong.

Things have gotten worse in the last several months, as we all know,

in our economy. Americans are struggling. American families are

sitting around the kitchen table today trying to figure out how

theyre going to keep their home, keep their job. Times are very,

very tough. And the worst thing you can do, the worst thing you can

do is raise taxes. Both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama want to

raise taxes. Thats out of touch. Thats out of touch.

Senator Obama says that he doesnt want to raise taxes on anybody

over making over $200,000 a year, yet he wants to nearly double the

capital gains tax. Nearly double it, which 100 million Americans have

investments in mutual funds, 401(k)s policemen, firemen, nurses.

He wants to increase their taxes.

MCCAIN: And he obviously doesnt understand the economy, because

history shows every time you have cut capital gains taxes, revenues

have increased, going back to Jack Kennedy. So out of touch? Yes,

they are out of touch when they want to raise taxes at the worst

possible time, when were in a recession.

Were going to cut taxes. Were going to reduce spending. Were

going to put a freeze on discretionary spending. Were going to make

wealthy people pay for their own prescription drugs. Were going to

scrub every institution of government and put them out of business

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you just mentioned your plan to have

wealthy people means-tested, increase their Medicare premiums.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Thats going to hit people, individuals earning

about $84,000 a year.

MCCAIN: $160,000.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Couples earning $160,000. How is that

different, that premium increase different from a tax increase?

MCCAIN: All it does it say that people are going to pay just as

they do in the other parts of Medicare, that can afford to pay.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Will they be paying

MCCAIN: Its going to be an increase in their payments, sure.

Why shouldnt we they pay why should we be paying for Warren

Buffett or Bill Gates or wealthy Americans who are retired, making

$160,000 a couple, not pay for their own prescription drugs? Weve

got $1 trillion unfunded liability associated with the Medicare

prescription drug bill. $1 trillion that were laying on the next

generation of Americans. We dont want to do that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Your tax plan will also have a lot of benefits

for wealthy Americans.


STEPHANOPOULOS: You have about $300 billion by your own count of

tax cuts a year in your plan. Some say it could be double that, some

budget experts. But even by your own accounting, $300 billion a year.

That means your previous promise to balance the budget in your first

term, thats gone.

MCCAIN: No, of course not. Look, Ill find you $100 billion





MCCAIN: We will have made a long (ph) progress towards it. Now,

if economic conditions continue to deteriorate, its going to be

harder, but were going to be on a path to a balanced budget.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But were not going to have a balanced budget

before you leave office in your first term?

MCCAIN: Well, that still should be a goal, but the goal the

goal right now is to get the economy going again.

Heres $100 billion right here for you, George. Two years in a

row, last two years, the president of the United States has signed in

a law, two big-spending, pork-barrel-laden bills worth $35 billion.

That increases the budget, the baseline of the budget. In the years

before that, $65 billion. You do away with those, theres $100

billion right there, before you look at any agency of government.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, lets talk about that, then.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Because you have $300 billion a year in tax

cuts, by your count, $200 billion a year in spending restraints by

your count. So I think its hard to see how youre going to get

MCCAIN: At least.

STEPHANOPOULOS: to a balanced budget in four years. But



STEPHANOPOULOS: let me just follow up on that. You talk

about earmarks

MCCAIN: Could I just finish my thought? You scrub every agency

of government, is there any American that doesnt believe that theres

tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars that can be saved? I

saved the taxpayers $6 billion all by myself well, with a little

help from my friends in the $6 billion on a bogus Air Force tanker


STEPHANOPOULOS: Lets talk about that, though. You claim

MCCAIN: Theres hundreds of billions that can be saved, and

Americans know that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you only claim $60 billion a year from your

earmark reforms. Every other

MCCAIN: It will be $100 billion when you look at $35 billion in

the last two years and $65 billion in the years before that, and

STEPHANOPOULOS: But sir, let me finish the point

MCCAIN: OK, sure.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Every other estimate Ive seen says that the

earmarks are about $18 or $20 billion a year. To get to the $60

youre talking about that includes an earmark like the aid to

Israel, $2 billion a year, $1 billion a year for military housing.

Youre not going to cut those.

MCCAIN: Im going to cut at least that look

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you cutting aid to Israel?

MCCAIN: Of course not. Im not cutting

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you cutting military housing?

MCCAIN: No, of course not. I am cutting billions and billions

out of defense spending which are not earmarks. The $400 million ship

that they had to scrap that was supposed to cost $140 million. The

$30 billion, I believe it is, add-on for a system in the Army thats

going up $30 billion and we still havent got any result from it. The

$50 million contract to some buddy of Air Force generals. I mean,

there are so many billions out there just in defense

STEPHANOPOULOS: To hit your number, you say $160 billion in

discretionary spending. The entire non-defense discretionary budget

is $500 billion a year. That means youre talking about a 30 percent

cut in every program. Education, veterans benefits

MCCAIN: Im talking about looking at every institution of


STEPHANOPOULOS: And youre prepared to (inaudible)?

MCCAIN: Im talking about changing the way we do business in


STEPHANOPOULOS: But are you prepared to cut 30 percent?

MCCAIN: I am here (ph) to cut hundreds of billions of dollars

out of wasteful and unnecessary spending in America, whether they be

ethanol subsidies, whether they be sugar price supports, whether they

be payments to the wealthiest farmers, whether they be the loopholes

that are out there worth I dont know how many billions and billions

of dollars.

I guess my critics and frankly from the tone of your question,

from the tone of your questions think were going to do business as

usual in Washington. Were not.


MCCAIN: Im their worst nightmare. Im their worst nightmare,

my friend.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congress has never made anything close to the

kinds of cuts that would be required

MCCAIN: Weve never

STEPHANOPOULOS: (inaudible) 30 percent. So heres my question.


STEPHANOPOULOS: If Congress does not give you the spending cuts

you say you can get, will you hold off on signing the tax cuts?

MCCAIN: No, of course not, because we want to increase peoples

taxes during a recession? And by the way, when Ronald Reagan came to

office, we did restrain spending. Its

STEPHANOPOULOS: Not the 30 percent in non-defense discretionary.

MCCAIN: My friend, we have increased the size of government by

some 40 percent just in the last few years. By some 40 percent, by

trillions. By trillions, we have increased the size of government.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Heres what I dont understand

MCCAIN: So why would you not think that if we stopped that

increase in the size of government, in the form of a $1 trillion or

so, that we cant balance the budget?

STEPHANOPOULOS: During the campaign, you said that you voted

against President Bushs tax cuts because the spending constraints

werent there.

MCCAIN: Yes. And they werent.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Now you say youre going to have tax cuts even

if you dont get the spending cuts. Back in 2001, you said that tax


MCCAIN: And could I respond to that? Because if we increase

peoples taxes today, which will be a massive tax increase, it will

exacerbate the recession that were in, and that is a fact, a

historical fact, that when economies are rough, then youve got to

reduce the tax burden on people.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But it seems like you have had an evolving

position on tax cuts. 2001, you said the Bush tax cuts violated your

conscience. 2003, you said you opposed them because we didnt figure

out how to pay for the war yet. 2008, you said you opposed them

because there were no spending constraints. Now youre saying its

tax cuts even if the spending cuts arent there. Basically, no matter

what the economic problem is, you say tax cuts are the solution.

MCCAIN: Because I can change the way we do business and cut

spending. The problem the difference of opinion that I have here

with the experts that youre quoting is that its not taxes. Its

spending thats the problem. And when you look at the growth in the

size of government, by some 40 in the estimate of some in the last

eight years, the largest by clearly most experts the largest

increase in the size of government, therefore the largest increase in

spending since the Great Society, then guess what? Then obviously, we

have deficits. So its the spending thats the problem, in my view,

not the tax cuts.

If you dont make these tax cuts by the way, also, you forgot

to mention, I said the reason why I opposed those tax cuts, because

there wasnt spending restraint. If we had done what I wanted to do,

we would be talking about more tax cuts today.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me move on to health care. That could be

the biggest difference between you and the Democrats this year.

Democrats say your tax credit plan will not come close to covering

everyone, and it especially wont help people with preexisting health

conditions. Here is Elizabeth Edwards, wife of John Edwards.


ELIZABETH EDWARDS: The truth is, a health care policy that

covers everything but cancer doesnt exactly do me a lot of good. And

John McCain and I have something in common neither one of us would

be covered by his health care policy.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Now, she went on to say that both of you are

going to be fine, because you have plenty of resources to pay for

health insurance, but for millions of Americans with preexisting

conditions, they wont. Why not guarantee that anyone with a

preexisting condition should be able to get health care?

MCCAIN: We will, as part of our plan, have a special Medicaid

trust fund set up to help care for those people who are who have

preexisting conditions. As you know, five chronic diseases consume 75

percent of the health care costs in America. Were not leaving

anybody behind. But what were not doing is were not going to have a

big government takeover and mandates. Theyve tried that in other

countries. Both Senator Obama and Senator Clintons plans are big-

government solutions. But thats true in everything that

STEPHANOPOULOS: Whats wrong with government whats wrong

with government-run health care?

MCCAIN: And we continue to have these debates whats wrong

with it? Go to Canada. Go to England and you can find out whats

wrong with it. Governments dont make the right decisions. Families

make the right decisions.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the points Mrs. Edwards made in the Wall

Street Journal, she said that your whole life, you had government

health care. You were the son of a Naval officer, a Naval officer,

now a member of Congress. And her point is, why shouldnt every

American be able to get the kind of health care that members of

Congress get or members of the military get?

MCCAIN: Its a cheap shot, but I did have a period of time where

I didnt have very good government health care. I had it from another



MCCAIN: So, look, I know what its like in America not to have

health care. We know that Americans are hurting there as well. Weve

got to make health care affordable and available. The difference,

again, between myself and the Democrats, and with all due respect,

Mrs. Edwards, I want the families to make the choices. They want the

government to make the choices. Thats a fundamental difference, and

we will continue to debate that issue.

But we can provide incentives.

MCCAIN: You mentioned that its not enough, a $5,000 refundable

tax credit for every family in America. Its a lot better than what

theyve got today.

And if we can let them go across state lines, and get these

inflationary aspects of health care under control, which we can do,

then more Americans will have affordable and available health care.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Your allies are signaling that patriotisms

going to be an issue in the fall.

Heres Karl Rove, in Gentlemans Quarterly Magazine. He said,

There are Democrats, particularly blue-collar Democrats, who defect

to McCain because they see McCain as a patriotic figure and they see

Obama as an elitist whos looking down his nose at them, which he is.

Do you have any doubt that Barack Obama shares your sense of


MCCAIN: Im sure hes very patriotic. But his relationship with

Mr. Ayers is open to question. And that


MCCAIN: Because if youre going to associate and have as a

friend and serve on a board and have a guy kick off your campaign that

says hes unrepentant, that he wished bombed more and then, the

worst thing of all, that, I think, really indicates Senator Obamas

attitude, is he had the incredible statement that he compared Mr.

Ayers, an unrepentant terrorist, with Senator Tom Coburn, Senator

Coburn, a physician who goes to Oklahoma on the weekends and brings

babies into life comparing those two I mean, thats not

thats an attitude, frankly, that certainly isnt in keeping with the

overall attitude


STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Obama said

MCCAIN: And its very insulting to a great man, a great doctor,

a great humanitarian, to compare to him with a guy who says, after

2001, I wish we had bombed more.

I had a reconciliation with the anti-war movement. One of the

great experiences of my life was to get to know and love David Ifshin.

I had a reconciliation with the Vietnamese, when we normalized


But how can you countenance someone who was engaged in bombings

which could have or did kill innocent people

STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Obama says he was eight years old when

that was happening.

MCCAIN: But he became friends with him and spent time with him

while the guy was unrepentant over his activities as a member of a

terrorist organization, the Weathermen.

I dont and then to compare him with Dr. Tom Coburn, who

spends so much of his life bringing babies into this world that, in

my view is really borders out outrage.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He also pointed out that he and Mr. Ayers have a

very loose relationship. They live in the same neighborhood. There

was an organizing meeting many, many years ago, in his house. And he

says, frankly, I dont agree with these comments that Mr. Ayers made.

MCCAIN: Doesnt agree with them? Does he condemn them?

Would he condemn someone who says that theyre unrepentant and

wished that they had bombed more and compare him to a doctor, one

of the great humanitarian in my view, one of the greatest

spokespersons for the rights of the unborn in America?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you say he should condemn these comments.


STEPHANOPOULOS: A lot of Senator Obamas allies and others say

that you should condemn the comments of Reverend John Hagee, an

evangelical pastor

MCCAIN: Oh, I do. And I did. I said, any comments that he made

about the Catholic church I strongly condemn, of course.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet you solicited and accepted his endorsement?

MCCAIN: Yes, indeed. I did. And I condemned the comments that

he made concerning the Catholic church.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But youre going to hold onto his endorsement?

Your own campaign acknowledged that you should have done a better

job of vetting Pastor Hagee.

MCCAIN: Oh, sure.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So was it a mistake to solicit and accept his


MCCAIN: Oh, probably, sure. But I admire and respect Dr.

Hagees leadership of the of his church. I admire and appreciate

his advocacy for the state of Israel, the independence of the state of


I condemn remarks that are made that has anything to do which is

condemning of the Catholic church, but so


STEPHANOPOULOS: no longer want his endorsement?

MCCAIN: Im glad to have his endorsement. I condemn remarks

that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything. But thanks for asking.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Lets talk about Iran.


STEPHANOPOULOS: I was talking to George Will before the program.

And he talked about this question. You say youre not ready to go to

war with Iran.

But you also say the only thing worse than exercising the

military option would be a nuclear-armed Iran.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Weve seen diplomacy is not working. The

Iranians are going full-speed ahead. So does that mean a vote for you

means a vote for war with Iran?

MCCAIN: Well, I think a vote means that I know how to work

together with our allies, and a league of democracies, to bring about

meaningful and impactful sanctions on the Iranians.

Ive already had conversations with President Sarkozy. Just

recently, again, I had conversations with Prime Minister Brown. We

could get together a league of democracies. We could impact the

Iranians in a very significant way.

Theyre dependent on 40 percent oil of their oil the refined

oil from outside their country.

MCCAIN: Theyve got a lousy economy, despite all the petro


STEPHANOPOULOS: So you think sanctions can work, still?

MCCAIN: Oh, Im confident of it. Im confident that meaningful

and tough sanctions can work, sure. At the end of the day

STEPHANOPOULOS: They havent made any difference so far.

MCCAIN: Well, they havent been meaningful, because the Russians

have blocked literally everything weve tried to do in the Security


But a league of democracies, countries that have the values and

goals, and control so much of the worlds economy, I think that we

could be very effective.

But I also say, at the end of the day, we cannot allow the

Iranians to have a nuclear weapon, as well. But there are many

avenues, and very effective action that can be taken


MCCAIN: short of any military action. Go ahead.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Youve defined success in Iraq as a generally

peaceful, stable, prosperous, democratic state. That is a very, very

tall order. And weve seen how much difficulty the Iraqi leaders have

had coming together.

Doesnt that mean that U.S. troops are being held hostage to

decisions of Iraqi leaders, under your standard?

MCCAIN: No, I dont think so at all. And Im very pleased at

the overall progress thats been made since we started the surge.

I know Americans are frustrated and saddened by the sacrifice

thats been made. I was frustrated for nearly four years as I fought

against the Rumsfeld strategy, and the presidents strategy in Iraq.

This new strategy, the tactic and the surge is working. The

Maliki government has made progress. A lot more needs to be done.

Were going to work on some prisoner releases. Were going to

continue to fight the battle of Mosul, where Al Qaida is still holding


In Basra, the bad news is that theyve had very big problems in

Basra. They have regained control of the Port of Basra.

Look, theres Shiite militias in southern Iraq that are still

very, very tough. Sadrs people, in parts of Baghdad and Sadr City

are very tough. But, the Sunni


STEPHANOPOULOS: Hes ready to declare war, again, he said, on

the Maliki government today.

MCCAIN: Pardon me?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Sadr said hes ready to declare war on the

Maliki government again today.

MCCAIN: Well, Mr. Sadr has been told that, unless his militia

put down their arms, they will not take part in free and fair

elections. And thats a unanimous view of the Maliki government,

Sunni and Shia alike.

So well see what happens. But its long and its hard and its

tough. But American causalities are down, overall, although there has

been a very bad spike.

And this is very, very long and hard and tough. If we succeed in

Iraq, you will see a stable part of a very important part of the

world. And you will see a longstanding

STEPHANOPOULOS: How long will that take?

MCCAIN: To what get

STEPHANOPOULOS: To get this success youre talking about?

MCCAIN: And if we fail and, you know, its an important part

of this equation. You set a date for withdrawal, chaos, genocide in

the region, increased Iranian influence; Al Qaida declares victory; in

some parts of the country they will be much stronger.

And we will back with further sacrifice on the part of the

American people.

How long? They key to it, as Ive said before, is, after the war

is over and Ill talk about how long in a second then, if we

want to have a long-term security arrangement with Iraq, the way that

we have with South Korea, which was a buffer against invasion from

North Korea, that will be fine.

How long? Its not a matter of time. Its a matter of

casualties. If we can eliminate American casualties, thats the key

to the success. Because Americans are grieved by the loss of these

brave of our most sacrifice of our most precious treasure.

And if we can keep these casualties down, which means the Iraqis

are taking the lead, which, to a large degree, they are, in the battle

of Mosul, which is taking place now, then we can look back with pride

and say, look, we were able to give the Iraqi people a far, far better

life than they ever would have had under Saddam Hussein.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, sir you know, were just about out

of time

MCCAIN: I know.


STEPHANOPOULOS: The polls show that the biggest single hurdle

youll face in this campaign could be your age.

How do you assure voters?

First of all, should voters take that into account?

And how do you reassure them?

MCCAIN: Sure. And it was a they took it into account in the

primary. And they saw me outcampaign my opponents and they saw the

town hall meetings and they saw the vigor.

But also, they want experience and knowledge, which leads to good

judgment. And they want action. And they know I can bring about

action now and change this government and change the course of history

and take care of our nations security and fix our economy.

They know that I can do that. And Ive got the prove it to them

in the weeks and months ahead.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You look vigorous today.

Senator McCain, thank you very much.

MCCAIN: Thank you, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The roundtable is next with George Will, Cokie

Roberts, and Sam Donaldson. And for more on how business leaders are

dealing with their economic and political challenges, check out our

new CEO profiles page at

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